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Paul Elam weighs in

May 17, 2012

Oh, and now I see Paul Elam himself has weighed in on my Mens Rights response, in the comments of John the Other’s post. With dazzling forensic sleight of hand, he turns the tables on me, revealing me to be the real misogynist.

He. Just. Doesn’t. Get. It. He lives in a self aggrandizing bubble where women are incompetent, childlike victims with no personal agency, and big strong men like himself are ever at their rescue. It’s modern misogyny in its most common form. Goldwag is just too ignorant and grandiose to know it.

“Also,” he adds, “the lawyerspeak coming from him is laughable. He represents the SPLC, calls us a hate site in several articles, tweets a Radfem post titled “SPLC Names Men’s Rights Activists as Hate Group,” and then has the lack of integrity to claim that AVfM and other MRA sites have not been put on a hate list by his organization….Goldwag is a lying sack of shit.”

The SPLC, as a matter of fact, did not formally add any of the groups profiled in the article to the list of 1018 hate groups that it counts as of 2011. Nor did it deny that many of the issues that the Mens Movement cares about–criticism of the family court system, false rape accusations and the like–have legitimacy.

What it did do, emphatically and unapologetically, and without any temporizing lawyer speak, was to categorize many of its voices, Elam’s the loudest and most obnoxious of all, as singularly hateful and misogynist. Elam’s RegisterHer.com was created to terrorize women by publicizing their names and addresses, leaving them open to harrassment and stalking. He said that was his intention when he launched it, vowing to “fuck their shit up.”

Contrary to what he declared in his open letter to the SPLC’s Richard Cohen (talk about lawyer speak!), many of the women in his registry did not make false rape accusations that were proven in a court of law or subsequently recanted. In fact, five of the six offenders featured on AVfM’s home page today are simply characterized as “bigots.” The sixth, an English MP, is called a “corrupt public official,” whose crime is “the breakdown of millions of families, countless suicides, rampant fatherlessness,the wrongful conviction of thousands of men, the burgeoning of the welfare state, the massive growth in government bureaucracy and the unwarranted intrusion into the private lives of millions of people.”

If Elam finds it so offensive to be called a misogynist, then why does he go to such extravagant lengths to prove that he is?

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Itanimulli

28 Comments leave one →
  1. May 17, 2012 6:26 pm

    Is Paul “Elam” his real name, or is it just coincidental that it’s an anagram of “male”?

    And BTW, where was he born? I’d like to see this guy’s birth certificate.

  2. May 17, 2012 6:42 pm

    Research via Google shows that Elam is apparently a real surname, as well as the transcribed Hebrew name of an ancient civilization located in Iran.

    There is no Wiki entry for Paul Elam, though there is at least one MRA website ascribing his absence to feminist activism.

  3. May 17, 2012 7:03 pm

    FWIW, Elam’s handle on YouTube is “the happy misogynist.”

    http://www.youtube.com/user/TheHappyMisogynist

    I suppose he could claim that’s a joke, but it really doesn’t work as a joke, given that he actually is a misogynist.

  4. agentmraorangemrm permalink
    May 17, 2012 11:03 pm

    And of course the Radfem collaborators gather in one easy place.

  5. May 18, 2012 6:38 am

    Why would you castigate Paul Elam as misogynist based on little to no evidence bar quoting out of context by David Futrelle, while at the same time supporting and accepting money from people that are far more misandrist, than Paul can be demonstrated to be misogynist?

    People like this

    “Females don’t have to kill baby boys. Just not nurture them. Females are forced to birth baby boys, but beyond that a female’s physical actions are her own.
    Males will die without the constant infusion of female energy that they get from our wombs and from our lives. They are perfectly welcome to take the male infants from the hands of the midwife, and what they do with it from that point is their decision.
    Females need to not be emotionally and intellectually invested in a male future.”

    “Even if we killed off 90% of men, the majority of women left over would do their best to keep the oppressive system. I’d dare say we’d have to kill off all the women too and leave the little girls and radfems to create the utopia.”

    http://radicalhub.com/2011/10/04/radical-feminism-in-the-21st-century/

  6. May 18, 2012 3:18 pm

    “… dazzling forensic sleight of hand …”

    Equal protection under the law for all.
    Equal protection of government for all.

    This is not sleight of hand. It is political principle. Something you would not know anything about.

    When you treat women like children who need you to guard the legal and institutional privileges that benefit women (but not men) you reveal your own sexism.

  7. May 18, 2012 10:07 pm

    I see nothing wrong with what Paul Elam is doing. It’s rather convenient to call anything you don’t agree with misogyny so that someone who doesn’t know better will shake with fear and immediately change his ways to gain the approval of women. When men start to stand up to women and refuse to continue letting their bullshit slip by it’s called misogyny. When a woman makes stupid decisions and we expect HER to be accountable for them…it’s called misogyny. When women expect chivalry and other special treatments while at the same time shaming us for our supposed “male privilege” we don’t dare call out the double standard because that too is misogyny. The more men are starting to wake up and caring less about the approval of women, the closer we are to living in a world where these things are not considered misogyny but rather male liberation.

  8. Sarah permalink
    May 19, 2012 3:17 am

    Well I for one am glad the SPLC is aware of this hate movement. These extremists deny their hate, but I’ve been observing them for a long time. Plus I’m just a teensy bit more inclined to take the word of the SPLC over a bunch of proven sexist haters. Thank you, Mr. Goldwag and SPLC. Fuck their shit up.

    • May 19, 2012 10:01 am

      Hi Sarah,

      “These extremists deny their hate, but I’ve been observing them for a long time.”

      Can you clarify and provide real citations and examples of the men’s movement doing something, that feminism does not do to far greater extremes.

      I will not accept the reiteration of false accusations and quotes out of context that have been published by David Futellle.

      • September 16, 2012 1:22 pm

        yup, he often only takes a small part of what someone said, misrepresenting their entire argument, then puts a flashing Sarcasm button to ad an element of “plausible deniability.”

        It’s also a bit disturbing how he enjoys making fun of guys with poor social skills with the Nice Guy ™ meme-a bully is still a bull even if they try to hide it by making it look cutesy-wootsey…

  9. Men's Rights Activist Lieutenant permalink
    May 21, 2012 9:45 pm

    Hahaha, “the happy misogynist”. What a tool.

  10. May 26, 2012 9:10 am

    Ok. I’m going to take it that you are unable to explain why your friends that call for holocaust and promote anti-male legislation based on pseudo science are somehow the good guys by comparison to the people that are working to expose them. I know you can’t without owning up to some very flawed thinking.

    Perhaps you can explain why you claimed that the men’s movement promotes a myth that men and women commit DV against each other at roughly equal rates, when all the mens movement has being doing is reiterating what national studies and DV experts have been saying for 30 or so now [1]. My guess there is that your sources are lying to you, and you are taking them at their word for similar reasons that you excuse members of the same group calling for holocaust and promoting anti-male legislation based on pseudo-science.

    [1]http://pubpages.unh.edu/~mas2/V75-Straus-09.pdf

  11. Darryl X permalink
    September 5, 2012 3:51 pm

    Register Her lists the names of women who have committed serious crimes against innocent men. If a woman doesn’t want to appear on the list, she shouldn’t expect to commit crimes against innocent men (usually for profit). To appear on the list, their must be documentation of the woman’s criminal behavior. I don’t see any problem with that. The photographs of men who are unable to pay their child support appear on pizza boxes. The names of innocent men falsely accused of rape and domestic violence are published in newspapers and throughout the web. What’s wrong with publishing the names of women who have accused falsely men of serious crimes but have not been punished for those false accusations?

    • Arthur Goldwag permalink*
      September 5, 2012 4:51 pm

      Three of the women featured on the home page of Register her.com are not criminals–one is an assistant DA whom MRAs have accused of misusing her powers (she has not been indicted or prosecuted); another is a blogger who opined about how nervous it made her to have strange men taking her toddler daughter to the bathroom at preschool (despite her attempts to apologize, her picture is still up almost a year later); and still another is a college professor who wrote an unfunny but pretty obviously satirical op ed about how women shouldn’t have to pay taxes. Then there are six photographs of women who were all prosecuted for their crimes. Not sure how any of these women made a “profit.”

      • Jay permalink
        September 5, 2012 5:23 pm

        You can read more about DA Mary Kellett here, including how her state bar has recommended disciplinary procedures against her (they were just delayed a few days ago)

        google: mary kellett site:fathersandfamilies.org

        Looking at the register-her site, which is a pretty terrible site as web things goes, it’s hard for me to see that this site calls for harassment of these people in any manner with actions taken against them being “registering” them that is making their cases known to google — how is it different from any say feminist site listing the ills of some named public persona, columnist, or blogger?

        (Jeez, look at all the vitriol going on right now in the atheist and atheist+ communities if you want to see Internet Drama)

      • jason permalink
        December 16, 2012 4:51 pm

        Kellet is persecuting an innocent man for a crime that was never committed she is abusing her position of power. If you were anything but a whipping boy of radical feminists you’d probably cover the nonsense over reactions on manboobz the self important sycophant of misandic feminists. tell me why is radical feminist hub allowed to call for eugenics you know the stuff with breeding and murder that the Nazis brought to the world on a mass scale.

  12. Jay permalink
    September 5, 2012 4:29 pm

    Hi Arthur,

    I am wary of registerher.com, but I am equally wary, if not more so of the hollaback sites.

    Unlike registerher.com (to the best of my recollection) the hollaback sites encourage anonymous reporting of men, identified by photograph, and do not notify the men they have been photographed on the hollaback site and labeled a harasser (or worse), and PROVIDE NO WAY for a person to rebut or have his photograph removed.

    I am curious as to what you think of the hollaback sites and how they are similar or differ from registerher.com.

    Thank you,

    Jay

    • Arthur Goldwag permalink*
      September 5, 2012 4:58 pm

      I don’t like vigilantism and I would be disturbed if I learned that Hollaback was posting the names, likenesses, and addresses of men and encouraging its readers to harrass them. Most of what I read on the New York site were anecdotes that didn’t mention names; still, one featured a photograph of someone the poster said had exposed himself to her and I confess I was bothered by that. Not that I have any sympathy for flashers, but a false accusation could be terribly damaging if it’s made in such a public way.

      • Jay permalink
        September 5, 2012 5:11 pm

        Thanks Arthur for a very prompt reply especially given how old this thread is.

        Of course, given Google Image Search, Tineye, and Facebook photo ID there are very few steps between posting a photo of a person and being able to ID them.

        And again, unlike registerher there is absolutely no way (per my looking for it a year or so ago) for a person to refute or have his picture taken down.

        And I think you are being slightly disingenuous to think that the hollaback sites named to encourage people to HOLLER BACK are not encouraging harassment of these people.

        So finally, I think the entire network of Hollaback sites, which has gotten a great deal of press and encouragement is far far worse than the registerher site which when I give it a very brief look, seems to go after public officials, and criminals found guilty of a crime.

        I am not trying to make a tu quoque argument or moral equivalency argument.

        I am asking what YOU, Arthur, have done to stop the Hollaback sites?

        In general with respect to mens rights and issues like false accusations of rape, what have YOU, Arthur, done to condemn and stop them?

        And believe me Arthur, and this is my bad, I have not googled at all to see what you have done, you may actually advocate against all of these things….

        What Arthur did you write about the Duke Lacrosse “rape” when it came out? What have you written about Amanda Marcotte who even after the players were totally exonerated wrote vicious lies about them (she is on Registerher)

        What have you written about Hofstra? What have you written about the seemingly countless false rapes accusations that the false rape society (now COTWA) has documented?

        DO YOU UNDERSTAND that part of the misogynistic tone from Paul Elam and others comes from their beliefs that in general the press, mainstream organizations, and even civil rights organizations like the SPLC has neglected the legitimate complaints of fathers and men?

        So Arthur, are you and the SPLC part of the problem or part of the solution?

        With respect and thanks and apologies for possible gratuitous use of all caps,

      • Arthur Goldwag permalink*
        September 5, 2012 6:30 pm

        I have written exactly one magazine article about the Mens Rights movement, which was published by the SPLC (for whom I occasionally freelance). I followed up with a handful of blog posts (some here; some at SPLC’s Hatewatch). I published nothing pro or con about the Duke lacrosse incident back in 2006 (I was writing a book about Kaballah at the time) or Hofstra three years ago (that story was breaking right around the time I published my book CULTS, CONSPIRACIES, AND SECRET SOCIETIES).

        I do not defend false rape accusations or false accusations of anything else–which is why I have confined my publshed criticisms of MRAS to the “underworld of misogynists, woman haters whose fury goes well beyond criticism of the family court system, domestic violence laws, and false rape accusations” to attacks on all feminists or even all women.

        Nothing that I have read on MRA venues about me or the SPLC since has made me want to recant or apologize for anything I’ve written. And I certainly don’t feel the need to defend myself for the nearly infinite universe of things that I haven’t written about.

      • Jay permalink
        September 5, 2012 9:07 pm

        “And I certainly don’t feel the need to defend myself for the nearly infinite universe of things that I haven’t written about.”

        Sometimes it’s the white space, the empty space that holds the meaning. What’s not said can be more important than what is said. What holds your focus keeps you from seeing what the magician is really doing. When you stare into the abyss…

        When you have time, and perhaps prior to your next article for the SPLC, I encourage you to research Fathers’ issues with the courts, here in the US and abroad. fathersandfamilies.org is a great place to start.

  13. September 16, 2012 12:55 pm

    look man, Amanda Marcotte is no saint…

    http://dearwhitefeminists.wordpress.com/update/

    I found her treatment of the Duke trial reprehensible along with Elma’s when at a rape trial acquit….

    It’s disturbing how hateful ideologues have so little regard for truth or justice….

  14. jason permalink
    December 16, 2012 4:45 pm

    pathetic as always goldwag you defend feminist that want to commit eugenics and mass murder of men your SPLC is fucking retard they let the liberal terrorist group Occupy wherever rape women attempt to blow up interstate bridges and commit assaults randomly. Tell me if you have the spine not to insult me and speak like an adult which I doubt greatly were the Occupy rapists just trying to help women experience their rape fantasies?

  15. Andrew Richards permalink
    February 5, 2013 12:51 pm

    Previously, I’d have dismissed the hatred of Paul Elam as mere spin and naming and shaming – had I not been the victim of rape apologetics by him (as a male rape survivor too I might add) on the AVfM facebook page (for anyone interested, I took the liberty of taking screen caps of the entire vile affair).

    There was recently what turned out to be a doctored photo with a feminist meme. It read “I need FEMINISM because men can still RAPE even without laying a hand on a woman.”

    Now of course I realised what was meant by this of course – the notion, like the one by Rebecca Watson, that her being asked out for coffee in an elevator was somehow a form of attempted rape.

    However much as with all of these issues, things are never as straight-forward as they initially appear.

    The thing is that for 18 months I was in a severely abusive long distance relationship, where as strange as this might sound to people (although I suspect it will resonate with anyone who has experienced spousal abuse in a long distance relationship) where using various psychological levers, including child abuse I had endured to force me into sexual acts with her over the phone. However as I learned firsthand – when you are dealing with a psychological abuser who is damn good at what she does, distance becomes irrelevant and it might as well be happening to you in person.

    Having endured that horror, amongst other forms of domestic violence, of being coerced into a sexual encounter with another person through an insidious and brutal from of psychological duress – rape at it’s most universal definition, I knew that despite what was meant by the photo, what it was saying, that in this digital age, that one person in a long distance relationship could use brutal psychological duress to coerce their spousal victim into a long distance sexual interaction – or rape them.

    Could I have just responded to the meme as radical feminists – the ones who claim that women giving consent in our society is impossible and that therefore all sexual intercourse is rape- had intended?

    Certainly, however that would have made me a hypocrite. The thing is, I’ve seen more than my fair share of domestic violence groups online and looked for support groups IRL – everyone treats battered men, and especially male rape survivors as a combination of “urban myth”/”perpetual predator”/”filthy and worthless whores”. I have had what I have endured dismissed, mocked and ridiculed by more feminists and white knights than I can count. If I dismissed the fact that what happened to me at the hands of a female abuser, could never happen to a woman at the hands of a male abuser, then I would be no better than the chauvinists who discounted what I endured based on gender.

    So on principle, I pointed out the truth in the meme, including that I was saying it based on my experiences as a survivor.

    What I was met with was a disgusting litany of mockery and trivialisation for the “crime” of recognising the truth in the meme, having my ordeal mocked, while flimsily misdirected with things said by Paul such as “”like coerced phone sex and cybersex in a long distance spousally abusive relationship scenario” Holy shit, please tell me you are kidding. The level of stupid in this is just amazing.” This was after first giving him the benefit of the doubt – that maybe he hadn’t considered the ways abusive relationships can exist in this electronic age when the world is often referred to as a “global village”.

    When I pointed out his hypocrisy in claiming to care about male rape victims, his response was “Andrew. I did not read enough of your comment to know your past, and did not comment on your victimization, AT ALL. So spare me the phony outrage. I only got as far as “coerced phone sex” before I had to stop. You’re an idiot. Andrew. While I am sure that whatever happened to you was unfortunate, it does not give you a stupidity pass. Sorry, even victims can be morons.”

    To give him the benefit of the doubt, let’s start with the positive – his claims that what I went through was “unfortunate”. If you were to describe any abusive relationship as “unfortunate”, where “unfortunate” means a heinous and life scarring crime, then this would be a fair assessment. However considering its context, this is clearly not the case.

    Now for the negative, which deals with 90%+ of this comment. Anyone looking at this post alone should see how it completely contradicts itself. I guess if you regard all aOn one hand he denies commenting on what I endured, but then immediately after claiming that he “had to stop” upon reading the nature of the abuse (implying it was a ludicrous statement and thereby responding with blatant trivialisation) calls me an idiot and a moron whilst mocking the nature of my abuse by claiming that being a survivor “doesn’t give me a stupidity pass”.

    However if this is in doubt, here is Paul’s post which completely followed it:

    “@Lee. Didn’t you know? Andrew’s phone is one that has no end call key on it, and his browser is a rapist.”

    In other words, while Paul may have been ignorant before by his own choosing; now that he was aware of it, he had no problem with mocking a male rape survivor – in the same one week period that he purported outrage at how male sexual assault survivors are treated in society.

    This then continued for several posts until I caught him out by his own hypocrisy regarding condemning the responses of certain AVfM members towards the rape story of James Landrith, I was met with complete silence on his part.

    When I publicly confronted him after the fact and called him out for his rape apologetics, he chose, rather than living up to the mandate of AVfM of “compassion for men” and realising after the fact that he’d engaged in anti-male rape apologetics and actually apologise, to ban me from the AVfM site, forum and facebook page, whist dismissing me as “nuts and a liar”. Meanwhile, multiple people who are on staff at AVfM, have arbitrarily chosen to support his conduct.

    What this exchange and Paul’s attempts to bury it have proven, is that Paul Elam’s concern for male victims clearly only extends as far as the political advantage any feigned concern might gain him.

    Regardless of Paul’s standing as a possible misogynist, what this whole disgusting affair (again, for anyone demanding proof, I have screen caps of the entire comments thread), what Paul has proven beyond a doubt is that he’s not above misandry and rape and domestic violence apologetics where male victims are concerned if he deems it politically advantageous. When Paul Elam demonstrates any kind of remorse for his public behaviour towards me as a male rape survivor, in the context of my being a male rape survivor, then I will happily reevaluate this position.

    • vita permalink
      February 8, 2013 7:50 pm

      I would love to see the screenshots !

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  1. The SPLC responds to MRAs critical of its report on the Men’s Rights movement [UPDATED w/ NEW LINKS] « man boobz

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